Action Orange - Problems with Orange and you want to take them to court

Archive for the ‘Orange Cases’ Category

Breach of Consumer Credit Act , breach of Office of fair Tradings Debt Collection Guidance, breach of Credit Service Association Code of Practice

After I had won my second case in August 2009, I wrote to Orange offering them a chance to settle out of court before I initiated a third case against them. I was giving them an opportunity to save us both some time and money without going to court. I offered to accept £1,000 rather than start any other proceedings against them, and they responded as I would expect an arrogant, greedy company to, saying that all matters had been dealt with in full in the previous two cases.

Once again, I went online in October 2009 and started proceedings against Orange and their chief collection company ( at that time with all the letters I had received ), NCO Financial Services for a breach of the Office of Fair Tradings guidelines on debt collection, the Credit Services Association Code of Practice and the Consumer Credit Act. Now NCO had their office in Scotland according to most of the paperwork ( which initially meant I could not include them in my court action as they weren’t in England or Wales ) but after some delving, I found they their main company was registered in London and I used that address for the court

During the whole of this third case I never once had any correspondence from NCO ( nor did the court ).

The case was initially set to be heard in February 2010 but due to my work commitments I had to have it moved to a later date. NCO still hadn’t responded and filed their allocation questionnaire with the court, and I kept writing to complain and ask the Judge to find the case in my favour, as the defendants hadn’t filed and complied with the allocation questionnaires. Several letters went back and forth between the court, myself and Orange but nothing was resolved. I then realised whilst all this was going on that I had made a miscalculation in the amount I was claiming and went to the court to increase the amount claimed by another £250

Orange called my action against them ” scurrilous and vexatious “, which basically meant that they knew they’d met their match and they were going to lose again and didn’t like it

They tried a host of letters complaining to the court that the matters had been dealt with in full and that I had no grounds for any further action against them.

Mediation was then offered by the court but neither party was interested and finally a date was agreed in February 2011 after the court moving the date once ( god knows why, it was never explained to me ).

Once again Orange didn’t bother sending anyone to represent them in the case and asked for it to be heard in their absence.

I had a different Judge for this case, once again a very professional, polite and thorough man, who made me run through the WHOLE history of the previous two cases. He made me explain in detail why I had brought a third case against Orange, and after hearing everything I said and looking at my evidence, he also found in my favour for recovering my loss of earnings during the period between August 2008 to March 2009 and their breaches of the legislation. He very kindly made the Judgement ” joint and several “, so that Orange would be liable for the whole Judgement as NCO had never bothered to contact the court at all

This time I was awarded £1382.14

I have now taken Orange for £1449.00, £885.00 and £1382.14 - a total of £3716.14 because they are so arrogant and pig headed they refuse to accept and admit when they are wrong. They were so greedy and wanted to get £60 from me that I didn’t owe, and it’s ended up costing them nearly £4,000.00 - will that teach them a lesson, I can tell you from the people that contact me every week that it hasn’t!

Orange in my opinion demonstrate the worst time of commercial sharp practice and poor business ethics and principles, and because of the way they behave will continue to leave themselves open to litigation from anyone like myself, who is brave enough to challenge their illegal business practices in the courts.

Breach of Protection from Harassment

After I had won my first case I was STILL getting letters from Orange’s debt collectors/solicitors. Orange had been ordered to pay my winnings from the first case by the 11th March 2009 and that day came and nothing arrived. I went online and started a second case against them ( cost £60 to do ) for failure to comply with the court order for payment and having to take half a day off work to issue a Warrant of Execution with a bailiff ( nothing like turning the tables on a big company ) and compensation under the Protection from Harassment Act. I had suffered letters and phone calls for months, with threats from debt collectors that they would come to my house and the whole nightmare had been very stressful for over 6 months.

Orange in all my dealings with them, seem to act like they are above the law, and I really hate their attitude. They should comply with the law just like I have to when dealing with my own clients at work. They are not better than the law, above the law or exempt from the law - despite the fact that they obviously feel they are.

Orange wrote to me and the court stating that all the issues between us were resolved and they hadn’t acted in breach of the act and that I had just won a court case against them and everything had been settled - in their eyes only!

My case was scheduled for August 2009 and I sent in all my evidence to the court and a copy onto Orange.

I received two further threatening red letters, one at the end of march and one at the end of April, despite writing both to Orange and it’s agents asking them to stop. I also wrote to the court to complain about their behaviour as well.

Once again, Orange wrote to the court and asked for the case to be heard infront of the Judge without them attending as it was not ” financially viable ” for them to appear in court.

I wanted to stop the letters coming and recover the cost of issuing the warrant for my half days lost labour. The day came and I went to court and was infront of the same Judge again, a very fair and professional man who carefully looked at my paperwork and the documentation I had sent into the court as my evidence. He questioned me as to what had happened and the order of letters and phone calls I had received.

He was NOT impressed by the volume of letters I had from 4 different companies and he found the case in my favour without any doubt. He was equally unimpressed by the two letters I received after I had won the first court case ( the case he presided over ). He also stated that he was disappointed that no-one from Orange had attended the court as he had some searching questions to ask them about their business practices! I was awarded £885.00 in total and had now beaten Orange a second time.

They cheque arrived and I had now taken Orange for £1449.00 and £885.00, a total of £2334.00.

All over a supposed debt of £60 that I didn’t owe - how stupid can a company be?

Breach of Contract, breach of Code of Conduct and Customer Charter, breach of Sale of Goods Act

I purchased an Orange phone, direct from the Orange website in June of 2007. I already had a contract with a basic phone but just wanted to upgrade my phone to a better quality one. In the same month as purchasing a new phone I renewed my contract for another year with Orange. At the beginning of September the phone went faulty and left me in an awkward situation, not being able to use it! I initially rang Orange and was passed to someone who could help me!!!
I was transfered to someone in the pay as you go department, who when I had explained what happened to my phone and he asked me for my phone number, then told me I needed the contracts department! He transferred me to the contract department where I went through the process of explaining what had happened again, this time to be told I needed the pay as you go department! I was transferred and then cut off whilst waiting for a customer advisor

To say I was angry having spent 45 minutes or so on the phone only to be cut off was an understatement. I rang again 2 more times in September but suffered the same ” passing the buck ” again and promises of phone calls that never happened! I wrote a letter of complaint towards the end of September and foolishly didn’t send it recorded delivery or get a proof of posting. Knowing how long it takes these big companies to respond to your correspondence, I waited for over a month for a reply and still no response. I rang again in October and asked about a response to my letter and once again was promised the elusive ” ring back “. By now, I had borrowed a phone from a friend as was getting very desparate trying to run a business as a self-employed consultant without a mobile phone ( wish I’d never given my old one away! ). I rang again in both October and November but wasn’t really getting anywhere and no-one seemed to want to take responsibility to help me with my faulty phone.

By now I was on my 4th borrowed phone and couldn’t wait any longer as December was upon me and I needed my own phone asap. I had been paying my monthly contract since August without a phone. Eventually ( middle of December ) I managed to get through to a nice guy ( a manager ) at Orange who took resposibilty for my phone problem. He promised me he would investigate what had gone on and ring me back. A week or so later he did actually call and tell me he would try and help and organise a replacement. There was a problem with the system and I couldn’t get a new replacement, just a refurb/2nd hand phone. I was livid, every high street store had my phone on display and yet Orange couldn’t get me a brand new one! I told him that was unacceptable as I’d only used the original phone for about 2 months before it had gone faulty. He told me to ring back in the New Year and see if they had a restock of new phones and then I could have one!

In January I rang and spoke to a lady who informed me that despite the hundreds on new phones on the high street they still didn’t have any new units and I would have to take a 2nd user unit as an ” acceptable replacement “. At this point I was ready to blow my top, I told her that was completely unacceptable and she then suggested I upgrade to an alternative phone. She advised me to go away and look at the other phones available and pick one of a similar price and spec that I wanted and she would send it out to me. I rang back a couple of days later and every phone I wanted of a similar ( not better ) spec she wanted me to pay extra for, which I told her was unreasonable under the circumstances. That was the straw that broke the camels back!

So I went and bought a new contract and phone through o2 as I had just about given up with Orange.

I rang the lady back and explained that they had :

• Breached their contract with me
• Breached the Sale of Goods Act
• Breached their Code of Practice

I informed her that I had bought another phone on o2 contract and that despite there being 5 months left on my contract, I had paid for 5 moths without a phone or full use of my contract and that I considered the contract null and void now after their breach. I explained that I would ask for 5 months worth of credit anyway and that if she should just cease my contract and send me a new replacement phone when one was available, that would be acceptable. She agreed with me that it was a fair resolution under the circumstances and was happy to accept my suggestion. I told her I would put it all in writing to Orange and to explain the situation and I would cancel my direct debit as of January. All was agreed and my new replacement phone arrived eventually, I sent my letter detailing our conversation and cancelled my direct debit.

I didn’t hear anything from Orange until the end of April when I got a bill for 3 months unpaid line rental!! I was a bit shocked and stunned under the circumstances and assumed the letter was a mistake and ignored it! Then in May another letter saying that I had to pay or they would set a debt collector on me and it might affect my credit rating. I rang and spoke to Orange and sent a letter. Then a few weeks later another letter from Orange and a letter from a debt collection agency. Once again I rang them both and explained the situation and informed them that I didn’t owe any money and that the account was cancelled to my knowledge. In a phone call to a rude lady at the debt collection company ( turned out to be a part of the Orange group of companies anyway ), I was informed that Orange would take me to court for the money if I didn’t pay up and they win ” 97.4% ” of all cases!

I was so insulted and angry with that woman that I went online and started a Small Claims Court action off against them for a breach of contract, breach of Sale of Goods Act, the Supply of Goods and Services Act and my loss of earnings ( this was in June 2008 and cost £60 to start the claim online ).

Despite notifying Orange and it’s debt collection agents and solicitors ( I had 4 different companies chasing me for a debt I didn’t owe between September 2008 and April 2009, which is totally illegal and quite clearly constitutes a breach of the Protection from Harassment Act ), I continued to receive letters and phone calls and they put me under as much stress and pressure as possible!

My case was scheduled for February 2009 and I made a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act in December 2008 and paid my £10 fee to obtain a copy of everything Orange held on file about me. I believed Orange were lying about certain facts and were not be wholey truthful about the information they were supplying to the court and their responses to my allegations.

I paid my court hearing fee of about £150.00 in Decmber 2009 to have the case heard and waited for my account file/data from Orange. They have a maximum of 40 days to get me the info and it turned up in time for the hearing in February 2009. I was amazed when the large pack of information turned up, as two crucial letters that proved my case ( that I luckily had kept ), Orange had omitted from the pack! I complained in writing to Orange and the court before the hearing date and they still denied everything.

Just before the case Orange wrote and informed the court that it was not economical for them to appear and asked for the case to be heard in their absence ( which they’re fully entitled to do ). I was gutted as I really wanted my day in court and had some searching questions to ask their solicitor/representative.

Anyway, the day came and I went into the court, told my history of events and showed my evidence. The Judge was very professional and polite and asked me a number of questions relating to different aspects of the case so he could obtain a fuller understanding of everything that happened. I showed the letters that Orange denied sending and claimed didn’t exist ( on their headed paperwork ) and proved that not only were they liars, but they hadn’t complied with my SAR ( Subject Access Request ) under the Data protection Act.

The Judge found in my favour and awarded me a total of £1449.00 against Orange as he agreed that they had breached my contract with them, the Sale of Goods Act and caused me considerable loss of earnings.

The Judge also noted with interest that despite Orange claiming I owed them £60 ( yes this whole process started off over £60 ), they never put in a counter claim or actually stated that I even owed them that money!

Hopefully that will have reduced their 97.4 % success rate in court